men drought
so let's clear something up firstly...
the two ladder theory -
women have 2 ladders 1. the friends ladder and 2. the potentially more then friends ladder.
what does this all mean? well the friends ladder is just that. where friends of the opposite sex are just friends and the absence of romantic/sexual/commitment feelings existing between them. the second one is one where friends of the opposite sex are friends but there is that certain "chemistry" where if the guy did ask the girl out they would say yes.
now being a "nice guy" is not the be all, end all argument for sticking a guy on the friends ladder and forever leaving him on there. contrary to what olga's saying on the rarity of it happening (and this is just my personal opinion), guys do have the opportunity to jump across both ladders. and i have no idea what she means by "guy friends hanging off" the friend ladder.
which now brings me onto my argument...
mr rick james declares it that friends of his have "suffered by being placed into the Friend Zone (without consent)" - well frankly of course being placed into one or the other ladder would occur without their consent because IT'S NOT UP TO THEM. where they go is determined by the chick herself and her feelings and attachement to the guy. for guys who have suffered such a heartbreak in their life well it's their own fault (note: i'm working under the pretense here that the girl wasn't stringing the guy along). they are the ones who have developed the deeper feelings themselves for the girl and either he's misread the signals or she just simply doesn't reciprocate.
mr rick james further goes on to say that a mistake guys do is "develop a rapport and later insinuate themselves into a r/ship" because this will just simply shove them into Friend Zone and thus "[take] any chance they ever had of entering a romantic r/ship with the girl" -
1. without ever developing a rapport with a girl how the heck do you ever think anything more can happen after? there's a reason why things such as "ability to communicate", "sense of humor" makes it into the top 5 criteria that women judge men on all the time. and yet again if the guy himself is "insinuating" himself into a r/ship, then it is just himself and thereby he's own fault that he's skewing his own reality up.
2. by firstly developing that friendship with a girl does not automatically shove you into "Friend Zone" forever and thereby eliminating all hope of a romantic r/ship. womenly advice guys: this is perhaps the best way to get into a romantic r/ship with a girl. start it off as a friendship, see if the potential's/chemistry's there, and progressively work your way up. going in for the kill too soon is what is more likely to stick you in the "Friend Zone" permanently....if you're lucky enough not to be stuck in "Creepy Guy Zone".
moral to this incredibly long story?
1. the description of what Men should be is entirely Olga's. not all women share the same view
2. guys can be a nice guy and still be DATABLE - i personally know at least 3 from the top of my head
3. nice guys DO NOT always finish last
peace out! - helga
the two ladder theory -
women have 2 ladders 1. the friends ladder and 2. the potentially more then friends ladder.
what does this all mean? well the friends ladder is just that. where friends of the opposite sex are just friends and the absence of romantic/sexual/commitment feelings existing between them. the second one is one where friends of the opposite sex are friends but there is that certain "chemistry" where if the guy did ask the girl out they would say yes.
now being a "nice guy" is not the be all, end all argument for sticking a guy on the friends ladder and forever leaving him on there. contrary to what olga's saying on the rarity of it happening (and this is just my personal opinion), guys do have the opportunity to jump across both ladders. and i have no idea what she means by "guy friends hanging off" the friend ladder.
which now brings me onto my argument...
mr rick james declares it that friends of his have "suffered by being placed into the Friend Zone (without consent)" - well frankly of course being placed into one or the other ladder would occur without their consent because IT'S NOT UP TO THEM. where they go is determined by the chick herself and her feelings and attachement to the guy. for guys who have suffered such a heartbreak in their life well it's their own fault (note: i'm working under the pretense here that the girl wasn't stringing the guy along). they are the ones who have developed the deeper feelings themselves for the girl and either he's misread the signals or she just simply doesn't reciprocate.
mr rick james further goes on to say that a mistake guys do is "develop a rapport and later insinuate themselves into a r/ship" because this will just simply shove them into Friend Zone and thus "[take] any chance they ever had of entering a romantic r/ship with the girl" -
1. without ever developing a rapport with a girl how the heck do you ever think anything more can happen after? there's a reason why things such as "ability to communicate", "sense of humor" makes it into the top 5 criteria that women judge men on all the time. and yet again if the guy himself is "insinuating" himself into a r/ship, then it is just himself and thereby he's own fault that he's skewing his own reality up.
2. by firstly developing that friendship with a girl does not automatically shove you into "Friend Zone" forever and thereby eliminating all hope of a romantic r/ship. womenly advice guys: this is perhaps the best way to get into a romantic r/ship with a girl. start it off as a friendship, see if the potential's/chemistry's there, and progressively work your way up. going in for the kill too soon is what is more likely to stick you in the "Friend Zone" permanently....if you're lucky enough not to be stuck in "Creepy Guy Zone".
moral to this incredibly long story?
1. the description of what Men should be is entirely Olga's. not all women share the same view
2. guys can be a nice guy and still be DATABLE - i personally know at least 3 from the top of my head
3. nice guys DO NOT always finish last
peace out! - helga
posted by viking_mistresses at 2:20 PM
14 Comments:
the fountain of knowledge runs fast and deep on this blog doesn't it.
you ladies are geniuses.
They should be compiled into a book, nay, a series of books, and published!
"The Da Viking Code"
A group of vikers in hot outfits try to solve the age old mystery of the ladders of friendship and romance. They travel the globe on their adventures against the perils of pickup lines and guys who are just too nice.
Will they unravel the mystery and return to their Nordic land with the knowledge of the world and hot exotic manly men; or return pennyless and heartbroken.
462 pages.
$24.95
Out at all good bookstores November 28th.
Bargain priced excitement!
I am at a significant disadvantage in having to reply to your posts in this ‘comment’ format, so bear with me.
You’re right – it’s not the worst thing in the world to be a nice guy. But it is when it comes to girls. Your colleague-in-blogdom Olga has the right idea in stating that the incidence of the friend-to-lover crossover is so low that it’s practically academic. If you rely on some objective facts from which to draw your opinion – read: actual anecdotal evidence rather than your biased, girly fantasies – you’ll find that Olga is right on the money.
I’ll address all of your points in order.
PS: No offence intended.
Point Zero (since you didn’t number it): You’re misconstruing my point about consent.
You’re right – it’s not up to guys, and it IS their own fault. What you’re misunderstanding is that what GETS THEM INTO said messy situation of developing feelings for a girl who’s not reciprocating is that they try the rapport-to-attraction approach. That approach is patently wrong. Seduction is a linear process. Here are the stages – 1. Attraction; 2. Rapport (Comfort); 3. Deep Rapport (Trust); 4. Isolation (privacy); 5. Sexual escalation.
You can’t begin a sentence with a full-stop and end it with a capital letter – sequence is everything. The rules of grammar, like the rules of social dynamics, require that things happen in the correct order.
Point One: See Above. Again, you’re partially right. Rapport is essential, but it needs to happen at the correct time, which is AFTER attraction and NOT BEFORE.
Point Two: You’re suffering from the syndrome they call CHICK LOGIC. That is to say, you’re confusing what you would logically LIKE to happen (viz. a relationship developing organically out of a friendship) with what the majority of girls respond to (which is the sequence I’ve mentioned above). If you have a conscience you should desist from dishing out ‘womanly advice’ that you very well know is verified but nothing but your uninformed opinions, because you’re likely to mislead the guys who have little experience with girls and cannot distinguish between what does and does not work.
Instead, I challenge you to provide the humble readers of your blog with 10 instances within the last six months where a friendship-to-relationship has developed. The examples should be taken from people that you know (i.e. anecdotal evidence). Actually, fuck putting it on the blog, just do it for yourself. You’ll see that despite the fact that you’d LIKE it to happen, the reality of the friends-to-lovers phenomenon is starkly in contrast.
Q. E. D.
One Love,
Rick James.
man someone needs their own blog.
I'll second that one. Although I think he comes up with some valid points
rick james dude you're on the ball, my good man
yes but after analogising relationships to sentences, i think the points should be taken with caution. there is no exact rule to relationships like there is to grammar.
also who is to say that attraction has to happen before rapport. if you have anecdotal evidence to suggest this happens, there is also a possibility that anecdotal evidence also supports vice-versa. and not just from people you know; from everywhere.
the relationships people seek are variably different, and i'm sure these vikers are speaking from their experience. even from within the viker group, it would seem that they each want different type of relationships too.
there is no need for an anonymous person to reprimand these ladies because they do not give the same advice as you.
Does Rick James ever play Battlefield 2 on Internode servers by any chance?
Nah dude. I dont play computer games. Cant blame a guy for taking my name though - I'm Rick James, Bitch!
;-)
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